Ben Zeidler recently chatted with legend Ken Shamrock about his own future in MMA, the future of his son, a potential match up with brother Frank, and of course… Dana White.
What do you think of the IFL changing to a true camp format?
I think that they tried to start out with one concept and it wasn’t working. No one could keep the teams together. We [Nevada Lions] were the only ones who could really do it. Since the guys don’t really train together all the time, they were going in different directions. Now, you can just pull the people in your camp who are ready and it’ll work out well.
Can the IFL serve as a viable opposition to the UFC or should we not even be comparing the two organizations.
They’re not even the same competition. The UFC has been there since the beginning and they’re a brand of individual fighting. Of course, it takes a team for an individual to get there, but saying that the IFL can or should compete with the UFC is very premature. The UFC is so strong because guys like me and Randy Couture and Royce Gracie built it into a strong brand.
Recently, one of your biggest adversaries, Tito Ortiz, has been expressing the same displeasure you’ve exhibited regarding Dana White and how he handles his business. Why would Dana purposely cut off all of his “legends?”
Everyone understands that he wants to be the show and if anyone threatens his popularity or strength, whether he’s right or wrong, Dana will go after them. He always says, verbatim, “I’m gonna bury him.” It’s this power thing for him and it’s gonna work for a while because myself, Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture built this thing up. We gave Dana White the strength to do what he’s doing now but he’s hurting everything that we built. He can’t stop and just admit that this isn’t about him. It’s about the guys who went the distance with the UFC and kept them strong. Dana handles the UFC hall of fame and he inducted me. Even then, he had to be the center of attention. He needs to learn that it’s not about him. He calls fighters out. He calls managers out. Is Dana White a promoter or a fighter?
Is it possible that Dana White is jealous of Tito’s success with The Apprentice and Punishment Athletics? Maybe Tito is becoming too big for Dana’s liking.
Tito is not a “yes-man.” Dana White has a hard time people who have some edges and we all have them. We all know that being a fighter, you have to have some edges. One thing that I can say is that if you look down the history of the UFC and track and see what has happened with different guys, you’ll se a pattern. If you don’t follow Dana’s rules, he’ll pack up his toys and go home and he won’t let you play with his toys anymore. Somewhere along the line, as time goes on, the guys who built this will make him answer to his actions.
I recently read that you’re in the best shape of your life. Can you talk a little bit about how you got there so late in your career?
Unfortunately, I’ve gone through injuries stemming from my cutting weight. I blew my knee out and then that took some time to get that where it needed to be. Then my shoulder went out and I needed some things replaced. One after another plagued me during the last few years. I’m one of those guys who will not quit and I’ll keep fighting, which is important to me but I know it means even more to my fans. My injuries restricted what I like to do, which is grapple, and I haven’t been able to do that due to my serious injuries. I’ve fought through those and now I’m able to sit back and go, you know what? I’m back. I can go into training and grapple punch, kick, take down, throw in leg locks, and I don’t get tired or worse during training. I get better. It’s a good feeling, man, and it’s been four years since I felt this good. I need to get some matches under my belt now. I’ve got a fight on March 8th and I’m gonna put a hurting on him.
He’s 11-7, 6’3”, 250 pounds. He doesn’t like to go past the first round and I respect that he doesn’t want it to go to a judge’s decision. I respect a guy like that. I’m looking forward to stepping in there. For four years, I’ve been struggling and it’s time. Knock on wood.
I was gonna say. You better be careful during training.
(Laughs) I know it, man. I’m gonna give it back to the fans. I know it’s been a hard time and it’s been very frustrating. But now, I can give it back.
Your son, who is 1-0 in MMA competition, is also fighting at the event. What is more exciting, your comeback or your son’s first mainstream fight?
Definitely my comeback, but when my son is on the same card, that’s great too. It’s never been done in MMA fighting. People ask me if I’m scared about his fighting. I don’t get scared, I know what the dangers are, I know what he faces, and I am comfortable with him going in. I know that he’s trained well and he’s trained properly and he’s in no more danger than in a school fight.
He’s probably safer than he would be in a school fight. He’s got a referee, a cutman, and set rules.
Exactly! He’s definitely safer.
What pieces of wisdom have you passed along to your son?
Well, you know, one thing that comes to mind is when we were traveling on a train going to an IFL championship fight. I like to take the train, it’s about a two day trip, and they have a whole restaurant on there and everything. Anyway, he was still doing culinary arts school and fighting never entered my mind for him. If he wanted to, I would support it, but they had never expressed any interest in fighting as a profession. I’ll let their minds float and they’ll do what they want to do. So he says “Dad, I want to talk to you about something.” I was really nervous, but then he goes “I want to put college on hold and try fighting.” For me, it was just… wow. I stepped back for a second and asked him where this came from. He told me that he had been training and it was something he wanted to do. I told him that it was great, but I made him promise me that if we put college on hold, you’re gonna go back. He told me that it sounded good and that he just wanted to be able to focus 100% on his first few fights.
Would you ever support him signing with the UFC?
You know, the UFC is something that I built with the help of other people. White has taken that away from me and it’s not his to take. I’m hoping that options will open up and my son will able to fighting there and take back the UFC. For now, I want to be able to control his opponents until the changes are made to the UFC where Royce Gracie and Randy Couture could have their kids fight and not have to worry about the politics.
Yeah, if he went in now, theyd probably throw him to the sharks. First opponent: Sean Sherk.
Dana White hasn’t always been that way. He really loved the sport and now he’s let some animal take over.
I’ve read that a fight with Frank Shamrock could be in the works. Can you confirm that with us?
Yes. I have already said that this is something that I want to happen. Frank made the challenge and I accepted it. Frank loves that hype and then finds a way to drop the fight. We have lots of difference and we don’t see eye to eye and that’s why we’re gonna fight.
Brother vs. Brother. That should be a media circus.
I’ve done lots of firsts in MMA. First with my son and then my brother.
If you do fight Frank, what would your game plan be? Where do you have the edge?
Mentally. I have beaten him down so many times mentally, he’s never gotten the best of me and he knows that. Frank won’t wait though – we’ll do this soon. He keeps doing this show with his countdown but the date keeps getting pushed back. I think it’s a countdown of me getting older.
I think it’s a countdown until you’re on your deathbed.
(Laughs) Yeah, that’s when he’ll want this fight.
He’s getting older too, though.
Yeah, but he’s still ten years younger!
Okay, okay, anything to say to your fans that have been waiting for the old Ken to return?
I appreciate all of the support through the ups and downs. The last few years have been so difficult and I know it’s been difficult for you guys. These next couple of years, hey Ben, I’m giving those years back.
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Flashing Blade
