You just never know what roads people have been down to get where they are. Top lightweight Hermes Franca has had a winding road that has lead him to a title contender’s match with Spencer Fisher Thursday night in Hollywood, Florida at UFC Fight Night.
It’s a great immigrant story, a story of perseverance, and Hermes will tell you it’s ultimately a jiu-jitsu story. Back in 2003 Hermes was one of the top-ranked lightweights in the UFC, and on the path towards a title shot. Two close controversial decisions gone bad, and a management decision on behalf of the UFC to put the entire lightweight division on hold, and Hermes was out of the picture.
In 2005, Franca went winless and his career was uncertain to say the least. But 2006 saw Franca come back with seven wins in a row and a return to the re-vamped UFC lightweight division. Now, with two new UFC wins under his belt, Hermes has just signed a new four-fight deal and right back into title contention.
Hermes took time to talk with InsideFighting about his career beginnings, the ups and downs that have followed and how Thursday’s fight plays into all of this.
Hermes, your next fight will be in Florida, your adopted home state. What does it feel like fighting in front of a “hometown crowd” with so much on the line?
Kinda good and at the same time, a little bit of pressure. But that’s ok. You want to do your best for your fans and students who give me all this support. I’ve done it now (in the AFC and once in the UFC) three or four times and there is good energy. You just have to stay focused on your fight.
You’re Brazilian Hermes, but talk a little bit about where you are from specifically.
I’m from Fortaleza. It’s beautiful city one of the best cities in Brazil. It looks a lot like Miami actually. There’s a beach around and it’s such a beautiful and healthy place to live. I started my Jiu Jitsu over there.
How did you get into Jiu-Jitsu, with whom and when Hermes?
I started around 1993-94 at the Academy of Sazinho. He gave me my blue belt, Marcus Aurelio gave me my purple and black belts. Aurelio was a Sazinho student, and eventually he moved out on his own. His school was near my house. I started training when I was twenty years old, so I wasn’t too young. But I think jiu-jitsu is like school where it doesn’t matter if you are 100 years old, you can still learn.
Like Helio Gracie.
Yeah, yeah, exactly!
So why did you decide to get into Jiu-Jitsu if you hadn’t been doing it since you were young like the Gracie family?
(laughing) Well, I’m a little embarrassed to say, but a year before I started Jiu-Jitsu I was in a party. I did sports before like Capoiera and Karate but just for fun when I was a kid. So I saw two guys who were going to get into a fight at the party. One was a Jiu-Jitsu guy and the other was a ValeTudo fighter. In Brazil, there is a difference and a rivalry between the two groups. ValeTudo were guys who said they were like Jiu-Jitsu without a gi and with striking.
Yes, exactly. So the Jiu-Jitsu guy was not in good shape but he was schemey. At the time, it was my opinion that the stronger ValeTudo guy was gonna beat the Jiu-Jitsu guy. But it was kind of different. The Jiu-Jitsu guy took him down, mounted him and started punching him. His friends all around started yelling “Jiu-Jitsu! Jiu-Jitsu!”
So I started looking for Jiu-Jitsu in my city. I was also watching Royce Gracie when he fought in the UFC. I went to Sazhino and saw different positions that I couldn’t stand! I was thinking, “How can a smaller guy beat my ass”? But day by day I got more excited.
So right off you went into it and trained every day?
Sometimes twice a day. I told my mom today that I have to say thanks to her. I lost my dad when I was 14, and she was one of the best mothers in the world. It is so hard to make money in Brazil and I told my mom “I’m not going to work 10 hours a day and make no money. What I want to do is Jiu-Jitsu” and my mom said “Ok. I you love, do that”. It was amazing. She comes to the US once a year and I go visit once a year.
How did you come to America?
First of all, when I was in Brazil, (Fellow UFC Fighter) Wilson Gouvia, he said “Hermes, I’m going to the US. I have family over there”! And I thought, “This guy’s crazy! What’s he talking about”? One day he called me and said “I’m here in the US! I’ve been working, I can make money”. He sent me some pictures and I got excited. I got my visa exactly a year later. I have to say thanks to him, he opened the door.
So you came to the US and started training here?
Well, we came to work. Wilson was valet parking and I worked at a car wash. I worked everyday and then I met a guy here, you may know of him, “Minotauro” (Former Pride Heavyweight Champion and fellow Brazilian, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira).
Yes, we’ve heard of him!
Well back then “Minotauro” was nobody. He had fought in Rings, and he lost once, I think to Dan Henderson before he went to Pride and become a champion. He was always by my side saying, “Hermes, you are good!” I remember I would be so tired after work. He would say “No buddy, let’s go train”. I would say “I can’t” and he would say “No, you can”. He’s amazing. It got to the point where I had to decide on working or training. He went to Brazil and I stayed here. One day in the end of 2004 I won a tournament. I met the American Top team owner and he asked if I wanted to join the team. I said yes, whatever, we can do that. I had never fought against nobody before. In 2001, they said, you are going to fight.
What was that training like back in the day?
Our first training was without anything. No shin protection, nothing. There was Wilson who is 205-lbs another who was 180-lbs and I Was about 165-lbs so it was funny. In 2003, I got a call from the UFC to fight. It was perfect because I got paid to teach and fight. That’s when I made the decision to train full-time.
How has your training changed since those first days?
It’s getting more and more professional day by day. Before I never did dieting for my fights. Now I do quality conditioning, weights, boxing and wrestling. It’s impossible to do all of that every day so what I do is train for whoever my next opponent is. If it’s a wrestler then I work on my sprawl and boxing. It’s about putting together game plans.
How long do you like to have to prepare for fights? Obviously it’s an idea because you’ve been fighting on short notice so much.
At least two months. But sometimes you fight without that time. You have to make money sometimes. Sometimes you have no choice, you have to pay bills. But what I’ve learned is that if your head is clear, it’s amazing. That’s what you need. I don’t have professional world champs in my academy, but I have quality. I have what I need. I have someone who knows Wrestling, Muay Thai etc.
And I have good friends there. Nobody puts pressure, there are no orders. I had some problems with American Top Team so I left unfortunately. I have nothing against nobody though. But then I got an opportunity and met Joe Mullings who is my partner. He’s a great guy.
In 2005 I lost three times, and thought “Oh my God, what am I going to do”? And all my team said to keep my head up. Jupiter is a great city. There are great people and they gave me support. I’m so grateful for my family at the Armory.
Watching your last fight against Nate Diaz in the WEC, it struck me that perhaps he and Spencer Fisher are similar in that they are both taller lightweights and like to throw hands and have speed. Nate appeared to give you problems in the first round with his reach and hand speed and aggression.
I think Spencer Fisher has more experience and he punches harder. Nate came out so strong first round I wasn’t waiting for that. So the second round I worked hard. For the first time I was a little bit nervous, like I just woke up in the cage after the first round. I needed a break. I fought 7 times in 8 months. It can’t be like that. Thanks to God that fight had a happy ending.
After that fight in October, I just totally relaxed. Just teaching being with family, teaching and relaxed. I got a call from the UFC and started to train at the end of November. So I’ve had plenty of time for this fight.
Spencer, he’s not going to let me pull guard, not going to stay in my guard and he’s probably working hard to block my submissions. Working his boxing and sprawl that’s what I’m expecting. What I’m doing is working my boxing and takedowns. It’s not going to be a secret. But you never know what is going to happen so you just have to say “F_ck that shit let’s go fight, let’s go see”.
How does it feel Hermes, being back in the UFC and in title contention after all you’ve been through?
It just makes me feel like a real champ. I don’t have the belt but I feel like a real champ. What I’ve learned is to say “God, my fight is in your hands”. It is what it is. Now I can see, it does make me feel strong…like it’s destiny.
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